#180 The Truth About MLK: Deconstructing the Myth pt. 1

This is a conversation dissecting one aspect of the MLK narrative that we need to be willing to properly analyze. Who was MLK? Is he an American hero to be celebrated? Does he value what you value? 

Who was he as a black American? Did he fight for values of black Americans? Who was he as a 'Christian'? Was he even a biblical Christian? This conversation gets pushed to the back of the bus (pun intended) far too often and it doesn't force us to confront a very, prolific name in American history. Even more - because of our silence, the tradition of his conjecture, oration and false theology continues to entrap many Americans in the most dangerous snare ever. 

Links Below:
1. Virgil Walker on MLK:
https://g3min.org/the-truth-behind-mlks-social-gospel/

2. An MLK Scholar Discovers the Truth:
https://theconversation.com/im-an-mlk-scholar-and-ill-never-be-able-to-view-king-in-the-same-light-118015

3. Chad O. Jackson Partial Doc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3xYwOwOBJs&t=1696s

4. The Successful Long March Through the Institutions:
https://americanvision.org/posts/the-successful-long-march-through-the-institutions/

5. V. Lenin's "What is To Be Done":
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/iii.htm

Transcript

Hey, guys. Here. This is Part 1 of a 2 part episode that I decided last minute to make it a two-part. This is this first part is going to be a conversation between a friend of mine who's actually been on black and board multiple times. Brother. Christ as we discuss MLK and the reason I'm stretching this out, is because I believe it is a significant conversation that. Need to have. This is not a black thing. Is not a white. This is a church thing, and the Church of Christ in America needs to stand against false narratives that continue to perpetuate division with. In her and this is a anchor here. This conversation on MLK and the false narratives of his beliefs. What he did for society. And So what we're addressing is kind of like just the macro scale in this first part, just really the macro scale of the narrative, the. We've been given of MLK. And we're looking at his beliefs amid some articles that have been posted by Virgil Walker. Done some things in the years past as well. But but but I think we ought to continue to do this year after year until everybody recognizes that MLK is not only someone who shouldn't be lionized. Was not a believer, and not only was should he not be lionized and is not a believer. You'll find in Part 2 coming after this is that he was. Somewhat of a horrid man. Allegedly. Allegedly. But we're gonna provide evidence in Part 2 that shows that if we can actually trust the accusations that are that are waged against him regarding his moral character. And so this is Part 1, me and Joe. And we're talking about the narrative of MLK and quote UN quote, blackness and black history, and why there seems to be this deep conflation between the Black Church and complete heretical teaching. So enjoy Part 1 and stay tuned for Part 2.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Black and Blurred. This is going to be a fun conversation. Conversation with a brother of mine. And for believers, brother of ours, about MLK, this is. The week of. Day if you have been tuned into any of the things that we've done over the past four years, there are some. Hesitations, I would say, at best, at worst. There are some. There's some opposition from me and others. The way that we view and discuss MLK, more specifically in regard to our Christian heritage here in this country and the way that we dedicate our, I don't know. Adoration or Sunday mornings and things like that to him, especially on this particular day. But then there's also, I guess, a larger discussion just regarding the historical narrative that I think we're going to dive into also in the Christian narrative as well. So I hope it's enjoyable, but I brought on the episode my brother Joe with me.

What's going on?

Joe, you did. Oh wait, you've done 1 episode with us or two.

I think this. I think this is the third man I think.

This is the third wow. Alright, #3.

This is the third, yeah.

#3 what were the first 2 again? Gotta remind me.

So I remember the last one I did was definitely. On you were on the blurred Bishop. We talked about Mike Tys.

That's. On.

We talked about the homosexuality.

That's right. When he said the church's transformation, we want transformation.

I don't.

Yeah. And there might have been.

Yeah.

One more that we did. But I really don't. I really don't. All I remember is we were at some point we were talking about the SBC, but I don't remember exactly. We were talking about. That was a while back.

That's.

Probably like. One of your first episodes.

Yeah. Wow, that was probably year one man. It's good to have you back, man.

Yeah.

Tell the people a little bit about yourself. Who are you?

Yeah. So. I live in Laurel, MD, so me and Brandon used to be at a church plant together. If you follow Brandon on Facebook when he asked about what his piece mean to you. Without thinking, yes, I'm the one that said. I would say it on the other podcast. City. I said city not thinking. Wait a? Maybe I should have done that, but.

That was the name of our church. That was the.

Yeah, that was the name of the church plant. But that's where me and Brandon first met and so.

Of the church cat. That's right.

Currently I'm I'm you pastoring at Capital Christian Fellowship in Lanham, MD, not far from. Where the church plant was in Riverdale, MD, last in PG County, Maryland. Where Brandon, you used to live before he headed out to ball back out to Baltimore.

That's right.

Been married for four years now. I serve on the board for trustee Christian athletes in PG County and. Go fly football. I and I guess also hope I still hope he's karate, because everything you need to know about me I have.

Hopeful, hopeful commanders fan. Shout them out.

Yes. So unfortunately the rape. You know what? That Raven's lost, though.

It's the way we live.

Watching the Ravens lose is probably a little more. Was probably a little more. Even lost that was excited about the commanders winning. So I was hoping that Lamar went all the way. Man, I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the best team we can be, the we we beat ourselves all the time constantly, OK.

Alright.

Every single time, every single time.

Yeah.

So I think to get the conversation started, I I hadn't planned on utilizing these recordings. However, I came across a clip and a quick video that I think really accentuates. My desire to have this conversation and bring forth this information for people because something that I genuinely believe. That transcends any type of specific conversation on ethnicity, faith, whatever is that. I don't think any human being should ever believe strongly about something they can't write about. I don't think anybody should ever do. Have strong beliefs and opinions about something that you can't write about at least 2 to 3 pages. That's a. That's that's a little, you know, grade school. Two to three pages, so if you can't do that yet, you have strong beliefs about this thing, then the question would have to be why? Why do you have them? Where did they come from? I did you see? I don't know if you follow D1.

Yeah, I actually met the one. Years ago, when he performed that, I got a picture with him.

Oh really?

Yeah, I met him. When? Back when he was performing at Kings Dominion. Think I saw him perform twice at Kings Dominion.

OK.

Yeah, yeah, he's really cool.

So. This is a video I thought I saw this thing where. I'm trying to get back to it, but apparently sexy red. Posted there it is.

Yeah. So I I did see that today.

Sexy red poster.

Yeah, I I don't what he said about it though.

She see? She. I'm not gonna listen to D1 speak here, but I wanted to read. What? Doctor Martin Luther King's daughter said so. Sorry for the listeners. Sexy Red, who is a rapper, I believe, right? A singer, a rapper. She posted a photo of her with Doctor Martin Luther King. And obviously that was to the strong dismay of his daughter, Bernice King, that said, this is intentionally. Distasteful, dishonorable, deplorable, and disrespectful to my father, who is not here to respond. I'm sorry, D1 is kind of blocking. Oh gosh.

Let.

Me. See if I can pull it up elsewhere. And so the picture was of sexy red with MLK. I don't know if they'll show the photo, but. Yeah. This is what Bernice King said. She. This is intentionally distasteful, dishonouring deplorable and disrespectful to my family and my father, who is not here to respond himself because he was assassinated for working for your civil and human rights and to end war and poverty. Please delete. OK. Now. I would say that. Posting anyone's deceased family member. With yourself, as somebody who's not directly connected to them, is distasteful.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's distasteful, however. I don't think that that's the tone being carried in that. I think the tone being carried in that tweet, which as his daughter she should be. Upset about? The tone carried Annette Tweet is the same tone I think carried to anybody who disagrees besides yourself, who disagrees with me and the and the the what I share about MLK and my journey, which has been about a six to seven-year journey kind of deconstructing the way. I view MLK. And it's a tone of I've been touching or speaking, I'll against one who is untouchable. And has been exalted to that place of untouchability. So I want what are your what are your thoughts on that tweet?

So it is a father. Is it? That's her.

Yeah.

Her dad. Yeah. So I get, it's a little different, but but I think I understand what you're saying is that when whenever anything about MLK is brought up, the really any any prominent person?

Mm.

Is brought in the question. The thing about MLK is that he is no longer here. So it but but but I do get it like whenever anything negative MLK is part of the question.

Mm.

It I think it is natural for us to say how how dare you. How could you? Because because he is a revered hero.

But.

No one is untouchable in in the sense that we can't openly disagree with someone. I'll say, for example, Jimmy Carter, right, Jimmy Carter. Just just passed away, right? Something that I heard often about Jimmy Carter is that he was a great man philanthropist. Cared about people all around the world, but was not. Great president.

Mm.

Now I don't know I I. I'm not going to dig into Jimmy Carter's life, and I guess maybe I can learn more about his policies, but. I don't think it's wrong or evil to say that he may not have been a good president.

Mm.

And so. But I, but I also don't under don't know exactly the message that. Texas Republicans have rapper was trying to convey.

I don't either. I I don't either.

Yeah. Well, I guess what she's trying to say that. Mlk's work. Was so that she can do what she's doing.

I don't think there was anything with. There was a picture as a matter of fact, she responded to Bernice. By by saying.

Hmm.

She. You ain't. Never meant to disrespect your family. Apologies, I just reposted. I saw that I thought was innocent. So that's all it. Now what's very interesting about that, which is a whole different episode, is that I think what's connected to Bernice's outrage is the person sexy red with that person comes connotations, right? Not just a woman.

Yeah.

It's not a black American woman posting a photo of MLK. It's sexy red. Who has a song called # Town?

Yes. Yeah.

Now. Here is where things get dark. That I would say that. As far as historically speaking, that photo was probably more accurate than people would probably admit. As far as Fraternizations that MLK has had with certain women, but those are things we can't talk about, right? But we'll get to. No, no. You give your thoughts. Give your thought.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

I mean, you know, I think I was in college. For someone had had to mention that he may have been unfaithful to his spouse, and then I would say, well, show me where. Show me the evidence. Obviously, FBA had his FBI had. However, his beating places were bugged, and I've seen allegations I just haven't haven't personally seen or heard of concrete evidence.

Mm.

Is it? Yeah, sure, sure, it's possible. I just happen. I was able to find more evidence on things you wrote about in college than that I I should say.

Oh, I would imagine so.

Yeah.

I. I would imagine so. I would think that especially during that time, if somebody is living a duplicitous lifestyle, it was much easier. Like, I mean think about. Even someone like Bill Cosby has to be snitched on by people who did stuff with him.

Right, yeah.

You know, I'm. I'm sure that women could come out whenever they want and say, hey, this Bill Cosby did this to me, but his status would easily say no, I didn't. Then we'll keep things going. So Bill Cosby went to prison because he upset somebody.

Yeah.

Went to parties with essentially. Is the way I see that.

I think it's, I think Cosmos. Though.

Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. No, that's what I'm.

Yeah.

Like he, he played the game and upset people. He played the game with.

Right.

That's what that was. I have another one. I have another one that I want to show. Know. Let me see if I if I.

Here we are.

Thank.

As you came all the way from Brooklyn.

Well, put the money on back. Yes. Look, we're in New York. I'm from honoring. We're honoring Doctor Martin Luther King, for he did not, with Donald Trump, is standing for. All. Reverend Martin Luther King did not stood for that. So we're here to represent him. And what he stood. And why?

Did you come all the way from Brooklyn to to to be at the one in Washington DC? I know there were a couple of events happening across the eastern seaboard to be here in Washington for this event.

You can hear.

Because we wanted to support what we what we believe in. Martin Luther King. What he stood for, not what this man has standing for and his inauguration and his billion dollars as billionaire friends.

Alright, so I I wanted to show that to highlight narrative, Laura, as we get into narrative. Like they clearly are not Donald Trump fans. They're clearly. Supporters of Doctor Martin Luther King.

The.

Yet that phrase. For when I kept hearing that. That's what triggered my thinking of what I said in the beginning of this post. I mean this episode. That you have strong feelings about that which you can't write on. Then where did those feelings come from? So I would isolate it. I would say. I wonder what? What does Donald Trump stand for in their in their mind? And then isolate another separate paper. Does MLK stand for? What does he stand for? How do they collide? Can somebody explain that? I mean, what are your thoughts about that? That video and then. I just said I'm. I'm thinking, let me say this clear thesis. That video was evidence of people. Giving having narratives about individuals given to them rather than them concluding on who a person is based on their own, you know, gathering of information.

But I I would say maybe yes and no, right. So. Umm. I guess if we're thinking about MLK versus Donald. Trump. But what we know about their personal lives, right? We know. Donald Trump is a very multiple time as well documented, right? And we know. OK, with married once, even though there are allegations, him also being unfaithful. But the allegations were being unfaithful. Not documented as not as are not as documented as Trump being married multiple times.

It depends on what you would mean by documented, because this is Once Upon a time, there were rumors of FBI documents.

Yeah.

Detailing mlk's rend. Those documents are available, but even those are just third hand, you know, or second hand whatever you have to.

Yeah.

But but not only. Now you have people who were a part of ML, KS, entourage. Who have stories about what he did? So now we have corroborating eyewitnesses. Eyewitness testimony and obviously you dive deep into this stuff on whether or not somebody was. A. Sexual, deviant and stuff like that. Then it's easy for people to say, Oh well, you know, he's a man. He's flawed. Get. But is that? We would respond to Donald Trump.

Is it?

He's a man. He's flawed.

Also, do do we respond OK? I mean I think holding just scales we should.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the same way. We should, but the fact of the matter is we don't. Why don't we?

Yeah. Don't.

Because we have strong feelings. About these individuals and don't know where they come from so so to be fair you your listener, the podcast we charge the same. We give the same charge to those who are sleeping in Donald Trump underwear, right? You say anything negative about Donald Trump and he jump down your throat. You have strong opinions about something and you aren't able to articulate what it is. That means those opinions were given to you. And what we're talking about in this episode is my my thesis is that our entire narrative of MLK, you talk about concrete evidence, first of all for you and I, you're you're what, 10 years younger than me.

Yeah, I'm 27.

Bing.

So you and I don't have any concrete evidence we have. Historical narrative. Well, that that's what we have now in in different contexts.

Yeah, yeah.

Is trustworthy in some context. Call it untrustworthy. So what I mean by that, people can say we can trust that Martin Luther King existed, but then people, you know, talk about Jesus never existed. Like.

Yeah, great.

That's a tested book and all of human history.

What are you?

Talking about.

So so historical narrative is important.

Yeah, man.

No, I I want to highlight that narrative in general is important because we you and I are living in a time where narrative is currently being formulated. Want to get your thoughts on this? If someone who has a progressive bent and ran into black and blurred podcast decided to tell the story of Brandon and Darren, we would most certainly be homophobic, transphobic. Racist. Misogynists who are evil, right?

Maybe.

100. 100%.

Yeah, yeah.

We would be there. We would be there and and that's a written narrative of who we are now, whether or not that person has some type of weight in narrative control or things like that determines whether or not that narrative about us catches fire. But right now, we do know that. She. She wouldn't need to make that. She he or she would need to make that conclusion based on their research of us all. They would need to know is that were Christians who are conservative and and and because in 2025 that narrative has already caught wind of if you click the drop down. Christian conservative. You know what you're going to find in it.

Yeah, you. You already have these things.

Yeah, they already exist, so just throw them on that thing and and vice versa, right? And so the question is, are have we done? Work. Regarding the narratives we were given as children about black history, black heroes. Or do you think on a general scale, we kind of just really receive those narratives and grow with them? Are your thought?

S.

Why?

I didn't have. I think we, I think as adults. We have the possibility of now to doing the work of. Learning history and relearning history. Not relearning it like unlearning it, but really understanding how we got to where we're here. Right. Now I I get and I guess I have a hard time. With that I mean, I went to a private school and I actually love history class. I was a history. I became a history minor. Remember. I remember my sophomore year in high school, my first. And I was like. Why am I getting out of? And then I had a really good teacher. Mr. Wong and he, really. By the end of that year, I was like, what a top student and I really paid attention and I sort of asked questions. Even then, there were a lot of things. That I didn't know, right? I had. I gotta have one. Class was U.S. history class and probably my government class was probably the most impactful class. So I I feel like I paid attention even though I paid. There are so many things that I have to go go back and and learn and pay attention to every time I go to the Holocaust Museum in DC, I learn something different.

Hmm.

It doesn't mean that that the history. Was hidden from me, but it's always going to be hidden if you don't look for the truth. If you don't search out of the truth as an adult, if you don't fall in love with knowing how you got to where you got to, then you're going to just. To conclusions that your your TV tells you. That your friends tell you that people around around you around you tell you so. I think every adult has responsibility to go.

Mm.

And if it means unlearning, then unlearn. But but to learn as much as they can about about the past, and I would have impacts their president.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's really good. I think that there may be some overlap in a territory that you might not even expect is overlap. Think that what you just described are people who would be called tinfoil hat people. You know, I was. I was in a group.

Thank you.

I was on a group of pastors. After the election and you know, we were just talking things and talking about other government stuff. And we're not and you know, people, I forget what conspiracy people brought. Brought up and. I don't know, somebody said. Kind of dismissive regarding how ridiculous it is and I and I said I don't think it's ridiculous. And they like brain you conspiracy theorists. I'm like, it's so interesting how we're talking about this very specific thing. I believe something about that thing, but you've given me a title as a result and I'm like we've been made to believe that the opposite of a conspiracy theorist is a rational thinker.

Yeah.

That that's the opposite. But no, the opposite of a conspiracy. I mean the opposite of a conspiracy theorist is a dismissive person, in my opinion. It's.

Yep.

It's a dismissive person that says that. That's just crazy.

That's crazy. Oh.

And you just dismiss it and I think that any human being who wants to peel back layers to get to the truth, just to make sure they can trust that what I'm seeing on the surface. Is actually organically grown from a root here, rather than something that's just been laid on top to cover something.

Be.

I think that is that is something that anybody with dignity does in values. Truth does. And so when we're talking about MLK, and we're talking about the narrative, how would you describe? What we know of MLK today?

Well. What we know what I'm discovering.

No, no, no, no.

Let's let's not. Let's not dive there yet. Let's.

Yeah. So we know.

Let's.

OK, to be a very important person, a civil rights movement, a pastor, someone. Who, who was an organizer and really put his life on the line. So that. The ills of our society, that claim to be equal for everyone. On display. So he was someone who who wanted to want everyone to be treated by the cause of the character, not the color of their skin pointed out. The specific. Injustices that people people of color were facing every single day.

Yeah. OK. I would. I would agree with that, I think. It's kind of fuzzy for me right now, but. And maybe I filtered this through my own upbringing, but I definitely highlighted his face.

Yeah.

In the way that I saw him and and what do we start? Planted 20/16/2017 and you started coming. Was that 2018?

2019 because I graduated 2019.

So this is as fresh as even um. In one of our very first services on MLK Day, we had a dedication to MLK.

Oh really?

Yeah.

That's that's different. I guess like you, you always mentioned that people sort of deify MLK. I guess I've never been in a in a in a context where. He was defied or put on a pedestal like we didn't mention it like in my first. We didn't mention him. This past Sunday, you know, so I I guess.

Yes.

When people say things like. He is made out to be this perfect untouchable figure. In church. I guess that's something I haven't experienced. What could be the people have?

Yeah, well, so did you.

No.

No, no. No, not the church. You work at the church that you grew up in. Was it a all black church?

Oh yeah, the church, the churches. Yeah, the churches I grew up in, the two churches. I I grew up in, one in DC1IN Upper Marlboro. Black churches, all black church.

And so there is something very fascinating. About this thing that we call black culture that I've been, you know, really digging at as far as trying to put words to you. You have the the secular realm of it, where it's like, you know, people identify as black. Valuable to. You try to figure those things out, isolate them, see where they grew from, what they've grown into today. And then when it comes down on the religious and faith-based spectrum. You you try to figure out what is this theological stance that people are holding onto that seems to be centered around their skin color? That then transcends in sort of a way their skin color, but it's still grounded by their skin color.

Yes.

So it's grounded by their skin color. And so this, this infatuation that existed. It was brought in on Sunday. As far as my experience and and by the time we had planted, which I was an associate pastor, it was in a context where Black was in and nobody wanted to be racist. You you better do AML K thing. Now and and I'm I'm actually on board with you. Have any strong opinions about MLK? Didn't have any strong opinions. I. You know, I just knew him as the the civil rights guy who was a Christian. And what I found fascinating before kind of diving into what I dove into regarding MLK. How you could go in someone's house a black American's house, and they have both Malcolm MLK.

Yes, I was in the bed in, in your last pocket. I was like. Never in my house.

And so do you see what I'm saying?

But but but but.

Answer this for the people listening, Joe.

Yeah.

Why wouldn't you have had Malcolm in your house? That he was a.

Muslim. Well, next to it is.

Because your faith is grounding you, right.

Yeah. Yeah, right.

And so any? Semblance of connection of fundamental connection that you would even see you had with MLK was rooted in his profession of faith, right?

Right. That's it.

And what I'm saying is the general narrative. That ain't the case, bro.

It's 'cause. He's black.

It's because he's black. So now. Is this is another thing for? Yeah, I want to get your thoughts on this before we start diving into some content and piece of it. That's that together. Something that I was very. Willing to do and able to do. Was to see through the tomfoolery of someone like an aisle Sharpton, Reverend Al Sharpton and a. Jackson. I saw them as people who loved a camera. I'm not saying that every person who is black could see that. And I know it's become. It's become more popular to smear them as a black American than it once was. I think Jay-Z has put some songs out over the past decade mocking them and things like that. He's made it cool to mock them. Meanwhile, for me, my rub against them was that they made a caricature of the faith that they called themselves ministers of the gospel. Yet you never heard gospel come from their mouth. You never heard it? In something that I was doing in my mind and and passively was isolating them. As defectors and distorters of Mlk's mantle. And I would. Put our boy in there. Raphael Warnock. I would put him in there. These defectors and distorters of Mlk's mantle.

Yes. Yeah.

But today I see them as continuous.

And as a.

They're continuing that mantle, bro, and I've got. I've got reasons why.

Yeah. OK.

I believe. So let me get let you if you have anything to respond with with that, I'll let you say that and we'll jump into some content.

Yeah. I mean, I would not only extend it to Sharpton and Jackson, but I would probably send that to a lot of our favorite gospel singers. Bro bro. I'm like man, I really. Praise is what I do.

What a buffoon. I'm sorry for, but he's not a believer.

Man.

Like ah. We should get to like, yeah. So you're referencing William Murphy for anybody who's not familiar with that, I'll say the name. I'll take the hit.

Yeah. You do that.

Is my podcast warrior. Murphy is not a shepherd. Not a pastor. He is not. But but he is a cue dog though OOP.

Yes, as it was a few days ago.

Two days ago, he pledged pledge the black fraternity and sorority, and so that that's a part of the conversation, right that our blackness. Transcends our actual faith profession. Darren and I did an episode. I forget what we titled it, but I I coined. I coined a phrase and I called it Bibio centric ethnic theism.

Theism, he told me that at uh, where were we at?

Oh, slim. We were eating lunch. That's right.

Yeah, I thought about that a few times, yeah.

That's right. That's right.

I was mulling it over with. Yeah, I was mulling over and and because, bro, I'm genuinely fascinated by this. Where?

You were still thinking about?

Because what we were talking about. Before we started recording, as I said that. The narratives of our blackness and the narrative of the. Church or faith?

Yeah.

Are inextricably linked, so that if you pull a thread from MLK in the culture narrative of what? Were. Cultural beliefs and the black narrative. You also be simultaneously pulling threads and unraveling this black faith in Christian narrative as well. Because they're linked together. I have a clip from which is wild. Actually use the same clip at the end of his thing. I think I have a little bit more different of a clip, but he used the same clip and this is from a conversation between Nikki Giovanni and James Baldwin.

OK. Yeah, I saw that.

And I want to play it. Let's listen to what they're saying. There may be explicit language in this. There's definitely at the very end, so you know, parental discretion advise but. It's very. Listen to them as day. Kind of dig through. Their lens of Christianity and what it means as a black American.

You've been out of church for a long time. OK, I do acknowledge the. I think it's a very cool I can't dig the theology, but the music and the energies of the church.

I do too. I do too.

But then I went to the New York Community College headed anniversary. It's 1st anniversary and I went up to an AME sign church. As a matter of fact. And the lady was singing. Some lady was singing. Yes, Jesus loves me and people started shouting. You love me.

Yeah, yeah.

People were shouting. And it hit me as I was sitting. My God, as a so-called black militant, I have nothing stronger to offer than.

Baby, what we did with Jesus was not supposed to happen at all. We took him. Took that. In May, in ours is what I'm to do. Invite Jesus in Montgomery, AL. Led by church. Something else with $1,000,000. Something else? He was always really a because we don't come from Israel. Can you imagine what happened to? Nikki. I married. I got to work. Come home. You say to me. Baby, what happened? I said no what? Well, you know, the Holy Ghost came by. And Joe? Holy Ghost was with my etern. Now. I might.

I don't think we'd go for it.

I might look at all at you. I really vulnerable. I. I might try to find that. The Holy the holy who?

The holy who?

This has been believed by millions of people who didn't die by it for 2000 years.

Yeah, they really did.

And when you? It you choose being gracious, I think the legend itself is a blasphemy. What is wrong with a man and a woman sleeping together, making love to each other and having a baby like everybody else?

It's true.

It's not why the son of God. To be born immaculately. I'll be all the sons of God. That's a blasphemy, but.

We're not all the same. That well.

Depends on what you mean by God.

Depends on who's doing it.

I claim doing as my father. And I'll give him a great, great balance until it's over, because God is our responsibility.

Well, I agree with a lot of people don't realize they think that we are God's responsibility.

You know.

But as one of them went, 30 million of us.

And God's only hope is.

Us no.

Fascinated.

Yeah.

Fascinating. So this is what's gut wrenching about that. She opens Nikki Giovanni opens that statement. For those unfamiliar with Nikki Giovanni, she's a poet. I guess you would call Black militant. Yeah, all the things of her time, really. Activists and then was a professor at colleges and things like that. A graduate of Columbia University. Very, very. Smart woman. But it the conversation opens with her addressing her familiarity with the church and also acknowledging James Baldwins familiarity with the church. There's something we we we share in that we share that there is a familiarity with quote UN quote church. Inherently in black culture.

Yeah. Uh.

It's obviously void of the gospel. At the surface.

Daniel yeah.

Doesn't doesn't mean. You go in an all black. For to the gospel, I'm saying the general.

Uh.

Cultural narrative of black on Christian bla bla bla is void of the gospel. I'm saying that's the mantle from which MLK came. Your response.

Hi.

I.

My responsibility would be. Because how do we know?

Hmm.

That. An OK. Would have misunderstood, totally misunderstood the.

Gospel.

Oh, I think it's far worse.

And then we would go into, yeah. And then we would go into what we would find in what he wrote and things like that.

Yeah, I. Yeah, I mean, I. I want to hear, you know, we've we've exchanged. We've spoiled over computer with this. I want to hear your thoughts on, like, my rebuttals on that because.

Yeah.

I think that you know what before we get there, let me let me play something else real quick.

Uh.

There's there's another. This is a recycled clip.

That.

That I'm sorry, corroborates their feelings of what it means to be a black Christian, that it's something that transcends the historical narrative of scripture. That that at. Center of our faith is our ethnic identity. That's why I come up with Bibio centric. The Bible can be used. Ethnic is the root of it. Theism that God is a personal God, but he's here to serve us. I mean, you heard all of that and.

Yeah, it's my responsibility.

They just said.

Is our responsibility.

Yet you heard all of that in what they just said.

What does? Mean.

Now listen to this from an excerpt from a documentary on the quote UN quote Black Church called. This is our song.

Delivered a blistering sermon at the first gathering on the National Baptist Convention. Bishop Turner asked for those in the room to see the face of God in a radical new way. It did not go over well.

I worship a ***** God. I believe God is a *****. ***** should worship a God who is a *****.

Henry McNeil Turner comes along and he says everyone has a God that looks like them. But if we are created in the image of God, then God is black when.

Mm.

Henry McNeil Turner talks about that. That Jesus is a black man. I'm sure everybody fell. Everybody absolutely fell out. What in the 19th century to say that absolutely extraordinary.

He's creating what we now call Black. He's literally challenging several generations now of a complete kind of universality of the idea of Jesus as this white blonde haired guy.

He has a line where he says Lord have mercy. On any race of people who do not believe that they look like God, and I think. That sums up so much of what the Black Church has fought its way through. And has been fighting for and that is to have its people see themselves as important to God is not less than. And Henry McNeil, Turner he. Got that?

I want. I want to hear your your first impression. Your thoughts on that?

So my mind immediately goes to Black Hebrew Israelites.

Mm.

Who probably were. I think that's prominent in the. In the 50s and 60s, as as they are now.

No, I don't. Think they were created?

So, like God, I think their founder was actually late 1800. Sure, though I need to.

Oh.

I need to do more. I'm always gonna do more research on those guys. Everywhere. And then you run, run, run into him on Facebook. But.

We've we've had.

Offers for people to come on.

You are able to come on.

They've reached out to us.

Really.

Yeah. And then they ghost. They ghost us, I say. Yeah, absolutely. I said yeah, absolutely.

Anyway, Oh well it you know, it did the the making guided to our own image like God has to look like us in order for us to worship him now.

Mm.

You know a part of me that wants to extend grace and that that must be coming from. From such a hurt place, right, that we feel like our God has to look just like us. For him, for him to Russell, worship him when? When the reality is is Jesus came as a Jew for both the Jew and the Gentile, right. He's reconciling all nations to himself.

Yeah.

No matter what he physically look like. So you also have to not understand that that important truth to think that that God has to look Chinese. Think God has to look Korean, but God has to look. The thing that God has to look European the God has to look black.

Like that was a woman.

Ourselves to him.

That was a woman pastor who gave that logic. Everybody has a God that looks like them, except for us. And she said if we're made in God's image and God is black. So that's such a remedial take.

And this happened at me.

That's. And so it's what it highlights is a lack of discipleship. I'm I'm with you. Like I don't want to just be somebody who's, like, punching down.

Yeah.

I get. I actually highlighted this. I forget what I was talking about, but I highlighted this kind of. This growth towards biblical centric ethnic theism and a mindset the growth starts with false information. I get it.

Yeah.

I'm not saying. False Christianity was bestowed on black Americans wholesale. There were black Americans who came over here who were stolen from their countries. Or sold. From their own countrymen and and also purchased. But they came over as Christians. Like they they were believers.

Yeah.

I mean Ethiopia. Ethiopia was first Christian nation, right, so.

Yes.

Man. So I just came from Ethiopia. Would Ethiopia last? September, yeah. They have. They have more convert in Ethiopia. Than in one year. Than we have memories in my church's conference.

Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Like if don't don't go, don't go over. And tell them.

Right.

Christianity was a white man.

Yeah, it's stupid, but that that highlights my point that we're going to get into where we have a very narrow mind of this world and it is American 1st and it is between black and white. Second, even within that American eyes, it's just now we started inviting.

Please.

Brown into the conversation. You know, Asians are still left out of the conversation, but it's like this very narrow minded, myopic view of the world and. That we try to bring Scripture into that world and we truncate it and we distort it. And we make it fit our own. So that is not exclusive to misdirected black Americans.

Yeah.

It's it's all it's it's it happened. And I would say first by misguided white Americans who were distorting scripture to justify things that they were doing. Obviously this is not across the board. The narrative on slavery is a different episode, but. You did have individuals who justified their evil deeds through the distortion of Scripture, and the answer to that, unfortunately. Was to use. Own distortion of scripture for your benefit.

And what's privately like you said?

Frustrates me is that you. Ahead what you say?

The cycle of sin Man cycle of sin, yeah.

The site, the cycle, and So what does it take to end that cycle? But to extinguish those flames and what people get upset about, I had a dude. Had a brother some years. Get mad at me on a YouTube video. That I did, and I talked about. This conversation on race and racism in like we're fighting racism with more racism. We're fighting hatred with hatred. And I think that, oh, man, Fred Hampton once said that you. Can't fight fire with fire?

You fight fire with water.

Mm.

That's what it is. And so. In a more profound way, we see that seed being rooted in. In who Jesus is that you can have whatever God you have in the history of this country and throughout the world, and all of them in some way have to have defeated something or some other God in order to ascend to their position. And if you're in the. Age, religion and it's you. To your position as God or whatever. Meanwhile, you have the one true living God who got stripped naked, beaten and hung. That's because I think in the same way that you have to fight fire with water, you have to fight a desire to kill. With a desire to be killed.

Yeah.

That's what it takes. And only the one who can end death could be willing to do that.

Yeah.

And obviously, we have the human answer to. Obviously, James Baldwin, Baldwin needed to hear and Nikki Giovanni needed to hear why he needed to be a human.

Yeah.

But that gospel is missed. So let's bring it back. Because what? Unless you have any last thoughts on on that. I just said. Oh, I'm. I never actually got to my point on that. I'm saying that that that argument started and and I highlighted in an episode that. It's perpetuated in seminaries. I heard. I hear a lot of argumentation saying how racist it seminaries are because the authors are all white and things like that. And I I rejected that notion. Reject. We can conclude that someone has the proposition. I am superior because I'm a white American and you are inferior. Because you're black. Because they taught a seminary class. I don't think you can conclude that. And it perpetuates a false narrative, however. We do not do the church any justice when we conceal or hide or don't take the effort to show all of her history as much as possible. What do I mean by that? I got introduced to Dietrich Bonhoeffer in seminary. Yeah. I got introduced to his theology. What, 10 years later? Full obviously, in seminary, I learned about his theology. But I didn't learn about the fact that he lived in Harlem and sat under a a black pastor in a All black congregation until 10 years later, and doing my own reading on Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

I learned that in the movie last last Thanksgiving, yes.

And that's that's a profound thing, because what it does is it highlights the beauty of the Lorde church that so many people need to hear today.

Yeah.

Uh.

But we left that out. And when you leave that out, people who want to weaponize that to create further divisions and see, I told you all you were racist. You didn't tell us about his black, you know, church. It's like. Feel the fire when you do that. So I think that people who are disseminators of information, church history, educ. Of pastors or whatever else, do your best to tell church history. And don't see that through the lens of the charge saying you're racist if you don't do it. See it through the lens of a faithful servant. That wants to glorify the Lord in the way that he. Throughout his people. That's what you need to do. That's what you need to do. I think. Touched a little bit on kind of the the the spectrum of faith and blackness in the narrative around. But if people aren't familiar, Chad Jackson is coming up with a documentary. And it touches a lot on the sociopolitical narrative regarding MLK and Unity and everything else. I think he's leveraging the Times Now. Where people have at least. A little taste of what Marxist ideology is, and he's trying to juxtapose that with King's Mantle and his platform.

Here.

And so that documentary isn't out fully yet, but a a segment of it is out on Chad Jackson's YouTube page, and you can look at it and check it out. Joe, offer me your thoughts. You said that there were some takeaways from it that you thought were leaked.

Yeah.

Are some things that you don't like.

So I did take some notes here and so. Umm and. I don't know channel Jackson personally.

Mm.

I I think channel Jackson, he. He was he also a part of the. Abu Tom documentary.

That is, yeah.

So the guy I'm friends with, the guy who produced it. Brother on. On Instagram, we talk every now and then, and so he sends me his videos and so. All the issues I have with channel Jackson is it seems like he's only coming from a place that black people are good and OK before the civil rights move. Everybody was good. And so it seems like I know that that that that's not true.

OK.

I thought it was not good, but it's so you see, but then.

I. I see that.

He goes even further and says that. That he starts to talk about how a how slaves were treated is just Hollywood it, you know, not all of them were whipped. You know, they they weren't all treated like like like dirt. Eventually they, you know. Eventually the slaves were going to be released, you know? And and so he. He then he eventually gets, but he's not saying this, but he's like there's someone who's like, speaking. And he starts talking about. How the Civil War was not over slavery. Over states rights, but over states rights to do what, right? And so yeah, go ahead.

I think. So let me let me let me address this part well, let me say this quick thing.

Yeah.

I my take away as far as the civil rights. Battle is as narrated in that documentary is that they were addressing that. This civil rights war was not over the north being so repulsed by slavery and the South being so gung ho fiercely.

Yeah. So I. I would agree with that, yeah.

That that's what I got from. He was saying that the South is saying we don't want the government doing or telling us what to do with our property. In the same way that you're not trying to do anything with the property of anybody at the North, don't tell us what to do with our property.

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, and even George Wallace, I I honestly a lot of George Wallace back in 2020.

Mm.

But he he's saying a lot of the same thing.

Mm.

It's like you guys in the north think you're so high, high and mighty, but you guys aren't treating black people.

Right.

I think you can do that without like. It's like insinuating that. Flavor really wasn't that. And so, for example, Alexander Alexander H Stevens, who was the vice president of the Confederacy, said our new government foundations are laid. It's cornerstone rest upon the great truth that what that the ***** is not equal to the white man.

Go. Mm.

That slavery subordination to the that slavery subordinate to the superior race. Is his natural and normal condition. Jemison, Davis.

Right.

A former civil government for those. Who by nature are not fit to govern themselves, right?

Yeah.

This is a president, the Vice President of the Confederacy, telling you why we're going to war over this. Right. So. Say it wasn't that like the main cause wasn't over slavery, I think. I think it was and I think you know as you always point out, that's why brothers and sisters in Christ died for that. So I think. I think he was very. This this dismissive. He also said that separation of ethnicities was actually a positive thing, right? Talked. How Booker T Washington, right, thought that it was OK for us to be separate. Because eventually we would all just get. I just think that's wishful thinking. I think that's. I think that's revision.

Revisionist. Well, Booker T actually said that I don't.

Yeah, yeah.

Call that.

Yeah.

I think that's actual history. I think you just disagree right with working out.

Yeah. I I I do.

Was good.

I also have. My my dad was from shorter. My dad side of the family lives in Montgomery still, right?

OK.

I I. Stories I've heard. You know, it's just it's it's just hard for, I guess, for me to hear someone a few years older than me making these claim. When, like my dad fled from the South, you know, so, yeah, I I think at least the part of the documentary that he has released, I have strong disagreements. Now, I do think.

Mm.

You know, he does a good job where he tries to explain. Now you know Karl Marx. Believed that religion was an opiate of the mass clearly and locate does not believe that you know, but also.

You said clearly M OK doesn't believe that.

Harshly. Yeah, I would say MLK did not believe that religion was openly opioid over. Past.

OK.

Yeah.

OK.

And we believe that Karl Marx was a violent person, right? Believed that you must be. The common people must overthrow violently when MLK was put into nonviolence, but channel talks about, well, obviously, violence wasn't going to work. So MLK was a advocate, yeah.

Well, no, I actually let's look at, let's look at something real. I think that's a important piece, but before we look at that, let me just address some of the things that you addressed. I didn't. I'm trying to keep track now so.

Yeah, sorry the lot.

You said.

I know it's a lot. No, yeah.

Oh yeah.

I would say. Let me let me talk about this in the whole. Of. I actually sympathize with you in feeling the dismissiveness of what was going on, but I I would say it in not in not agreeing with the dismissiveness I would say. I filter that through.

Yeah.

A result of our times that he is presenting an equal and opposite force. To what? To the fact that our narrative is on the complete opposite side, where it's completely gruesome. White people in droves are so disgusted with every black person and my only visual narrative of slavery has come through Hollywood. And it's been of the most grotesque form.

That's true.

Right. And I think he is presenting even though his aim is not to talk about slavery, it's to get to somewhere. And I think that whenever you're doing that, it can feel dismissive, which is why it's a tall task.

Yeah.

Right, right.

It's a tall task to do. So I I genuinely. I'm not pushing back on that. I sympathize with that and I and I take it for what it is. Understanding what he's trying to communicate and what he's trying to communicate is that. This hyperbolized narrative that has, let's be honest, it has fueled the flames of black Americans younger than you. Yeah, who have racial animosity towards white Americans?

Thank you.

We're in 2025. That narrative. It it that? Is strong. The movies keep coming out, and So what? Fighting against. Ultimately, is for people to see the world the way it ought to be seen. And I and I think that, yeah, I think there. Been a little bit more. Carefulness and maybe I don't know.

Yeah.

Not. So maybe that.

Nah, and he said. He said it wasn't finished, but it's like, but I'll but I also see compare with this what he thought of civil rights.

Yeah, it's not. It's not finished.

And then I'll be talking about civil wars like. All right, bro, you know.

Well, what he's I think what he's building up to is building up to the fruits of Marxism that we're seeing in our society, starting from the very.

Thank you.

Subtle seeds during those times so. Dang. There was something you all read the clip. Clip. Here's a very important piece, because there's a piece of that clip where he's reading through a linen book. He's reading through linens book and he has a specific part of that highlighted that for our listeners, when it gets to that part, I'm going to pause it and read it and then I'm going to let the rest of the clip play. So there's a highlighted section in Linens Book what is to be done? And it says social democracy must change from a party of the social revolution into a Democratic Party of social reforms.

The Communist program for Revolution in America is divided into two phases. Violent and non violent. The strategy for violent revolution calls for chaos, anarchy, mass confusion and panic among the people. A crisis in government and then out of the vacuum. The sudden seizure of power by communist led guerilla bands. Echoing across Arkansas are the first rumblings of revolt in the Southland. The nonviolent phase of revolution actually is more important to the communists and more potentially dangerous to us.

OK, now. What's important about that, based on one of the things that you were highlighting. You made a. I don't believe you know Karl Marx believe that religion is an opiate of the masses, and MLK definitely didn't believe that. Obviously I can't speak concretely on that actual statement, but what is that statement? A sentiment of? It believes that there is something that transcends our actual religion, that we ought to therefore dedicate ourselves to, and people are sidetracked. To buy their current religions, I would definitely believe that MLK believed that. In the fact that. He saw Christianity based on his statements, which we'll talk about. Don't give your rebuttal yet. I want people to hear. Clearly, based on his statements.

Yeah.

That he clearly was not a Christian. Based on those statements. Those are not Christian. They are antithetical to Christian statements, yet he wore the suit of Christianity well. Why? To achieve a greater thing in his mind. And that in the way that you achieve it is through religion. Why? Because people are sticking it in their arm. And so. I think in a very. More. What's the word I'm looking? Meticulous and complex way, I would say. He did agree with that sentiment. Not explicitly, but I think practically he definitely did. There is. Let me see. And. When it comes down to his school papers, we can talk about this.

Yeah.

Listen to. Of what he says this is at Grocer Theological Seminary. He.

Yeah.

The Orthodox attempt to explain the divinity of Jesus in terms of an inherent metaphysical substance within him. Seems to. Quite inadequate to say that Christ is divine in an ontological sense. That this is Brandon. That meaning his very essence, his state of being. Is actually harmful and detrimental so that the orthodox view of the divinity of Christ is, in my mind, quite readily denied. Now my conclusion on that is. Mlk was not. A Christian. But you have a rebuttal. What is it?

My only rebuttal to that is actually I think holds that in his article that he wrote a.

Mm.

But I do think. It is intentionally. He doesn't quote the article to tell you when it was written. Now I'm a gracious person.

Who doesn't?

Wait, can you can you see? You see. Are you on the like the the Stanford Web website? Oh the. Oh, OK, so you can see when that was written by King 1949, right?

Mm.

So how old was King in 1949?

He might have been 19.

He was 20. Yeah, right.

OK. Yeah.

So I'm gonna give grace. And say hopefully that's not what he where. He stood now as a 20 year old, I understood the. Of knowing.

That hold. I don't.

Yeah.

I don't want you. Pass by. I imagined you making that statement. Imagined you? I want us to deal on this real quick because I want to come back to my conclusion.

My.

Conclusion is that King was not a Christian. By not making that conclusion solely because, oh, I read this college paper and then I'm going to conclude on the king that was assassinated. No, there's a lot. That's just much traversing through my mind in that. What is traversing that because of the faith that both you and I had in college?

Uh.

And the fact that we hold to that right now.

Yeah.

Now me more. I came to Christ in college. Right and. Immediately began renouncing things that I valued once. Once Upon a time while in college. Renouncing them? Not because I felt like that was a rite of passage. Have to do. They just naturally come up. Hey, I remember thinking this way. Don't anymore. I don't do this anymore. I don't like this. I don't believe this anymore this.

Wow, very biblical word.

Repentance, this repentance. That is the mark of a believer. Now that could be a little bit more subtle when you just when we're just dealing with sanctification, right? Just dealing with maturity and things like. You and I were certainly more stupid when we were 20. Than we are now. There's wisdom. But when it comes down to a profession of faith. This is such an egregious denial of who Christ is as our savior and the essence in author and perfector of our faith that it would take at least.

Right.

Some type of explicit change, even if he's not denouncing his papers. I don't even to address his papers. I just need to hear that there is a difference from this and there it's there is none.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

There's none. That's a big deal. That's a big deal. And. What connects me to? Going back to what we were talking about in the beginning, 'cause, I remember watching, I think it was when Biden visited his church in Melkasech church. He visited his church.

And.

I remember just the big spectacle of which I got it. I get. Whatever. But then Raphael Warnock invited, like the people of different faiths, to stand up. And to be acknowledged and to say that we all share in the same spirit and drink from the same well, like if I had to just stab at something that sounds like Pennsylvania, it's definitely not Christian.

Yeah.

And so the thought that I always have is.

Right.

How can you be so steeped in the culture and linguistics of biblical centric Christianity and not be Christian?

Yeah.

And it goes back to what Baldwin said. It and I think now that we've left over what Baldwin said. We're now in the socio political aspect of it. I think it's important for Chad to highlight what he's highlighting is because what comes along with Marxist ideology is religious belief, ironically. There is a religious belief in in, in cultural Marxism. And. When it comes down to these statements that MLK made as a very intelligent college student, mind you, they're like I think you asked a question or you you highlighted whether or not somebody grasps the gospel like Baldwin or or Nicki.

Yeah.

But he grasps it and denied it.

Yeah. Yeah. At least what we have right here. Yeah, yeah.

That's different. What we have right here in school, I'll keep saying it. What we have right here in school is important and I think what adds to its weight is the silence. Of any form of repentance or change of heart regarding who Jesus is. That's a big deal. It's a very big deal.

Mm.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I think. I don't know how long this was. But we were. I think you came to hear me preach and I preached. You know you have to believe that Jesus is God was that was that the one, right?

Yeah. Yes, yes.

That the one. Yeah, you have to believe that Jesus got to be a Christian. The conclusion would be, yeah. You must believe Jesus is God. You must believe that I am he or you will die in your sins, right? So I can't preach that message. And then. Look at. Know someone that I may have revered? And then deny that. Say it's OK, you know, I had a big true.

Yeah, it's. It's true.

After show integrity and consistency there, you know.

And and and.

Yeah.

That beginning rang. That I wanted us to take a step on is not even to even draw conclusion where I've drawn just to be able to talk.

Yeah.

But I mean look it look, I mean, I've seen pastors like emcee, others who will jump down your throat for questioning those. I'm thinking where if we got into a place where because of our allegiance to Christ, we want to question a supposed brother and his theological stance, that is antithetical to scripture and. Because of his skin. Whoa, what things are we adopting and bringing into our, quote UN quote profession that we aren't being open and honest about? Because I think that's how you end up with thousands of people at Ebenezer who are being filled with a non gospel. Because at the end of the day, that's what I care about. I think about my reason for coming back here to Baltimore. It's it's two tiers. The first kind of surface level tier was the fact that I myself grew up identifying as a Christian, not knowing Christ, and so I cared about people who are growing up in a Christian context, which at large America is a Christian context, however. No, no, I'm saying I'm saying where?

Yeah.

Umm. There are people who need the gospel but don't need to learn who Jesus is.

That's true.

What I mean?

That's what I mean.

True.

I'm saying that as far as a a, a preacher and a missionary and evangelist. Where that struck a court with me because. Because I knew all the christianies and I spoke it well, I believed I was a Christian. And so you can be steeped. The lies of your sin. Like many in the Bible Belt, many in the progressive area that think they're the better Christians, the progressive Christians, everybody's got some form of Christianity that's better. Baldwins black Christianity. Everybody's got some form and so me knowing that I identified as a Christian and didn't know Christ. Really stuck out to me, but two more specifically, as I see perpetuated in our history in this country, this identity. With the church. But it deviates from the beauty of the gospel and who Christ is. You know HC Jackson? Is. The kind of mlk's rival, as they would say.

Yes, National Baptist National Baptist convention, right? Yeah, yeah.

That's right.

That's. That's right. He he he was a biblical. You listen to him talk. You don't have to find many clips. You listen to him talk. The gospel pours from his mouth. Yet why don't we know much about him as black Christians in America? He's outside of our narrative. He's outside and I saw just how thick this veil is for so many people, and now we Fast forward to 2020 on up and now not only is that an issue within Black Americans, you have academia writing books about it. You got prominent preachers. Telling people to stand firm in their hatred towards each other because of skin color to buy into these stupid narratives and everything else. And people are going to hell. Yeah, that's the issue. Going to hell so. That's what drives me to want to talk about these. I I think this is the only thing I found with the word gospel in it. This is a letter to Coretta Scott King. To be fair, I don't care. King me. What's her maiden name?

Oh man, I. I just think that it I look at it.

Was it Scott?

No, I looked at it right before we got. Remember what it was? But I know, I know you're talking about though.

But this is yeah, this is a letter.

Yeah.

She they were married, he says. Let us continue to hope, work and pray that in the future we will live to see. A warless world, a better distribution of wealth, and a brotherhood that transcends race or color. This is the gospel that I will preach to the world. And that sounds great. That sounds great, but I think the enemy is fine. With us wanting good things, so long as we deny the good one.

Right, yeah.

The enemy's fun.

So obviously, that's not the gospel.

No, no.

Right. I would have an issue. Of someone taking a taxi to Kim and said, Hey, Joe doesn't understand the gospel.

Say again I.

Would have an issue with someone looking at a text I sent to. And saying, oh, you know, you don't understand. Gospel but.

I mean, to be honest with you.

If.

You, who are Preacher, said this in a text to Kim. You know why? It.

Yeah.

I will dissect it.

Yeah, if if, if, if. If at the end of the day. You're just Joe. And you send the text to Kim. Then. It's a conversation with. It is your Joe. You send a text to Kim. You die and you're being honored. Next to Jesus. On Sundays, there's a statue in Capitals dedicated to you. Are days dedicated to you? There are streets dedicated to you, and the very mention of your name in a negative light to get you killed by people who look like you. Then yeah, I'm dissecting that text. I'm a dissected.

Done.

I'm. I'm a dissected but at the end of the day I think that that letter he sent that's funny, he. A text.

Yeah, you know.

They send your wife no letters, man. No man, but but it's an extension of his beliefs. That's an extension, you know.

Have you asked him that? Probably fair. That's probably fair.

Yeah, it's an extension, Walter.

Reprogram.

Rosenbush yeah, rosenbush.

Heading towards OK for sure.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Definitely. So you you see those come out in his words, and I think that's what we're looking for. We're looking for either corroboration to somebody who recognizes that Jesus, like you said, is the one who inherits all nations. Therefore, our identity in Christ. Transcends our skin color, or someone or or or words that corroborate the belief that there is some. Type of systemic. Whatever, there's some type of government system that needs to be put in place in order for this to take place. And I'm saying that the latter chose to be true more than the former. We see more of a hope in this government system. Than we do in the reign of Christ, in the hearts of those who call him Lord. And I. That Christians need to know that not because I got something against MLK, not because I hate Marxism that much, which I think it's evil. However, at the end of the day. That's something I've mentioned multiple times on this podcast. That when he cracks the sky, nothing's going to matter except. Who do you say that I am? Who do you say that I am? And there are a lot of black Americans and white Americans and non black, non white, whatever Asian Latin that are buying into this narrative of ethnic identity. And replacement of Christological identity. And it's going to leave them saying, Lord, Lord, and he's going to say. Don't know you. So we have to deconstruct pillars that I believe have perpetuated this.

So do you think that? That king elevated or taught the elevation of black.

No, I think that that's a fruit.

Do you think he just a fruit? OK.

Yeah, it's a fruit. It's a fruit.

Yeah, because I I I can't see the things that he says overtly that he wants. Black people to be elevated.

So in the same way, right? As we're.

Yeah.

We're we're narrowing in on this thing, so it can seem like I'm dismissing or misrepresenting, which I don't mean to because I am not here to say that everything that MLK did was bad. I don't believe that. I don't believe everything that Barack Obama did was bad.

Right.

Majority I believe was but.

But.

But but I'm. I'm not here to talk. I'm not here to say that I'm. I'm as a matter of fact, we still have to deal with the fact that he was assassinated. You know, I, you know, he and that not like Michael Mets. He was assassinated like hey. You're you're creating too much unity and empowerment amongst people. And I think. That that's the reason why he was assassinated, right? I believe that that was actually an he was bringing an empowering message to people. That is a dangerous thing to a government and and I think that's why he was assassinated.

Thank you. The government was behind.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Come on, man, where's my tinfoil?

You better get your bullet.

I definitely do. Yeah, I I I definitely do. I mean like we're talking. Talking narratives. Narratives are given to us. What's his name? His killer?

Lee Harvey Oswald, that always hit him always get.

Yeah. Leo. No, no, that's JFK.

Lee Harvey is JK, I mean JFK. That bother you?

Start to the day. You gotta pick it. On. I mean, I remember this one. James L.

Reynolds a James Earl Jones. Jones, but yeah, man, as far as narratives are concerned, we're given those on.

5.

And the question is, are you a dismissive person? Whether somebody says, hey, this just happened and you dismiss it or they tell you this just happened and you dismiss it and believe it. Or are you a? You're willing to dive in to what it is and and see and validate it? Check it. I think that's important and that's something that we are dissuaded to do. We're just, it's we're dissuaded from it and we shouldn't be. Pastors, teachers, preachers. They should not dissuade people from wanting to learn the truth in such a way that if it is true, they can write about it. They can write and talk to people about. That's how we should be with the gospel that we so understand the gospel instead of using that word, gospel, gospel, gospel. We understand it's an actual message, a lens through which we look and understand the entire world in our existence. And what we have coming for us and the hope that we have coming to us as a result of Jesus Christ, people are not able to do that coming up in historically cultured churches. Doesn't matter what the culture is, even if it is historically white evangelical church. They're they're in their culture and tradition and following after the tradition of their fathers. The same with black Americans or whatever. It's like what generation's going to be the generation to start throwing. On that fire. It's. It's time. It's time. It's time. So any last thoughts, man any? Things you want us to touch on that we didn't get to.

No, I think that's it, man. Think. I don't think there's anything. The whole horribly wrong with recognizing the important work that that came through king. But then also recognizing some of the thing or some of the symptoms or some of the things or some of the the terrible food as well. But just go research for yourself. There are articles about things that arose wrote about. There are a lot of sermons of of his own YouTube, and then he listed those sermons. I think you know it does stand. It seems like he does not. At least. On YouTube talk a lot about sin.

Hmm hmm.

It seems like he does not talk a lot about the importance of of everyone putting their faith in Christ. There is a quote where he says where he says. I am primarily a preacher of the gospel, so righteous is a part of our work. So so there's that. But we really go read and and don't don't be afraid to just ask what is the truth?

Yeah, yeah.

You know. Oh, like. Let every man be a liar and only God be true.

Amen. Amen. Amen. That's the heart of it. Oh, I knew what I wanted to. You were talking about the like separate, separate being good. I think what they're what Chad was highlighting in that documentary was. The fact that in order for integration to happen. Then the narrative of. The narrative of being separate, being terrible has to gain steam. Right. The fact that we're separate and we're not allowed to be together is. So government, you need to make sure that we have to be together and I think I don't know if it's addressed in this documentary, but Chad and others in the past. Were not proponents of integration, and by that I mean they were not proponents of a government forcing integration just as much as they were against a government forcing segregation.

Yeah, he sees. Say what?

I would just say too late. The governor, as the government had had in four segregation.

Yeah, well. But that's the thing I think. I think that's the thing missing.

Next I can check from a statewide water fountain here.

Yeah, I think that that's the thing that's missing with, like conservatives and a non conservative politically and things like that it's like. I I'm I'm somebody who loves the idea of being able to make a mistake and I suffer the consequences. I'm not. I love use love. I'm talking about the freedom involved, the inherent freedom involved in that. That I can make a mistake and suffer the consequences of that mistake. I do not like the idea of the government placing restrictions so that I could possibly never make a mistake. I Don. So with that, I can seem petty when I'm like, hey, I think that police should never be getting paid for making sure I'm wearing my seat belt. I just. I think that's very stupid. I think it's very stupid. I'm a grown man. If I'm not wearing my seat belt, it's of my own volition. I don't need another person to pull up and potentially turn into a hostile situation. Because you wanna make sure I'm. My seat belt. It's like, why don't we limit interactions between citizens and police where we can? But that's a conservative freedom based mindset and I think that's the point they're coming from where it's like and he shows those pictures and those photos like hey. There were communities where people were integrated naturally. It's what humans were doing.

Yeah.

People hated each other, and I think that I forget his name. But his friend who's on there was highlighting that it wasn't just black and white. People were treating white people terribly. People treated. That's what people did. But they were also integrated together and so you create an even bigger monster when it's predicated on a government.

Yep.

Forced segregation followed up with a government forced integration. It's like the issue to highlight is not on the segregation and integration, it's to highlight the government forced get out. That's the point.

But we overthrow the government, right?

Well, hey, look it OK. Say that.

No.

But I think I want to do a new one, maybe at a later date. We maybe think about it the long walk through the institutions. Familiar with that?

No.

But there's a lot at play here and and I think the way that we would analyze MLK and Marxist cultural Marxism. In a part of Long Walk through institutions is how you overcome a society or overthrow a society and their values and things like that. And part of those that long walk is making sure that you all throw the different pillars of a society, family, education, church. And you think about things like Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, Margaret Singer specifically wanted to attach herself to black preachers so that she can get into the Black church, which then gets into black families. And you can begin to understand why it seems like an ethnic allegiance.

Move.

To have a certain political bend. And so if you're somebody like me who has no allegiance to any political party, I vote based off of what my convictions are regarding Christ. Fellow Black Christians can look. Me and say. You ain't black, as if that's condemning me. To hell.

Yeah.

They they think that hurts my. They think that it carries weight for me. Rather than to be a son, but to be black, it's a long I think it's a very long, thick veil on our society and it takes some chipping away at. This is just one. A couple a couple swings at the tree. I appreciate you doing it with me.

Yeah. Appreciate you have.

Yeah, man. Any things that people can be praying for, for you and your family. Congrats on celebrating four years.

Yeah. Thank you, man. Just. Oh. Just continue to be faithful ministry.

And.

Can I remind me, lighter only God be true with all. These pastors, rappers fallen from from grace.

Hmm.

Continue to be faithful personal life, faithful ministry as well and faithful to the word.

Amen.

Those, those are the big things.

Alright man. Well, I really appreciate you. Thank you guys tuning this episode of. And Blair, where you? To hear one of two things, a humble opinion. Or the facts holler