#173 Are Black Fraternities and Sororities Idolatrous? w/Miss Tytus Jones

We are joined by Miss Tytus Jones; content creator and budding apologist YouTuber who walks with us as we introduce many to and enrage more with our conversation on black fraternities and sororities. Are these social groups that are meant to enliven your college experience? Is there something more to them? Is this a rite of passage for black Americans? Should Christians think differently about pledging their allegiance to anything? Let us know your thoughts in the show notes!

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Black and blurred. Hi. That's daren. I'm Brandon. Guys, we're back with another episode and we're jumping right in. Got another guest with us closing. I think we're gonna close out the year with this one, Dan. I don't. Don't. I mean, this is December, it's Christmas.

It is an honor.

It's Christmas and we've got a sister here with us, Miss Titus 2 from Miss Titus 2 channel YouTube content creator Instagram. You do your podcast.

No, I don't have a podcast yet, but I need to.

OK.

One started for sure.

I mean YouTube kind of serves as the same thing, but either way welcome.

Yeah.

To black and blur. How long you been in the content creator space?

Thanks, I'm happy.

Oh, I think I started in 2019. Five years, yeah.

Wow. Wow. What? What made you do it in 2019?

So short story. Long story short, basically I had OK so I had a friend at a church that I used to go to that became a. Israelite and.

Oh yeah.

I started having debates with this person and I was realizing that they were totally wrong, but I could not defend my faith adequately. So I started, you know, going on YouTube looking for resources. Reading books about the topic and then. That just I just got into apologetics, really. Like I took. It seriously 'cause I didn't know anything about apologetics before then, and I have like a Word of Faith, prosperity, gospel, type of background. So I just. I had a lot of different beliefs and I had never really been challenged from, you know, more like a academic historical standpoint of is Christianity really true so. I got to thank my Hebrew Israelite friend for kind of pushing me to the deep end of the pool. And so that's basically how I got into apologetics. And then I just started making videos about the books and things that I would read in videos and stuff that I would watch. And so that was it.

Oh wow. Is he still a Hebrew Israelite?

To my knowledge, I think they've kind of drifted off into something else, but it's still kind of in the same. Anti White Anti Christian type of thing. So yeah of course.

Right. Right. Yeah, we've seen that trend. We've seen that trend. Now we're here for a specific purpose. I think one thing that I've been encouraged about being in the content creator space, you know Darren and I, we started this podcast. One, because there were a lot of things that were becoming mainstream that were once kind of unspoken and now people were. Not only being drawn to this ideology, but they were bold enough to say it out loud and that's like this blurred view of blackness. And then obviously obviously subsequently at the blurred view of everything else, personhood, gender, sexuality, all that stuff. And we existed in a church space where we were the only two black American men who disagreed with a lot of the common ideology that people held.

Hello.

And it was kind of just. None of those beat it off the backs of others regarding our disagreement in why we disagree. So we started this podcast about something that's been encouraging, is seeing a lot of brothers and sisters in Christ who also happen to be black Americans, who are seeing the veil that exist has existed over time. Through the guise of black culture. And it's been stealing. Black Americans away from the truth of the gospel. Biblical gospel. That's not to say that every white American who's a Christian has the true biblical gospel because they're. But at least in our space, there's a lot of things that would that have been stuffed into black culture. Really. Antichrist? And for the sake of blackness, it's maintained. So we're going to attack a little bit of that today. Ruffle some feathers, and we specifically brought Titus on so that y'all can. Mad at her. Not. Not us, not us.

That.

Is not right man. Not right.

Before we do that, though, you and. We. All just laughing about threads and my frustration with threads. Like Instagram. Yeah, Instagram wants their own kind of Twitter X space. And threads is supposed to be that. I don't know how to. It yet I'm just. I'm like a 75 year old person, just complaining on it. Off my lawn. But you're on there engaging people.

Get off.

Vehemently. And people are seeing your content and they're engaging with it and something that shocked me, I think it was yesterday you posted a question. You remember what it was regarding faith or atheism?

I think it was about. Like how did the universe get here? Something like that, yes.

OK.

Is that the one you're talking? I think so.

I'm gonna pull it up. We're gonna remember. So let's look at. Let me make sure the sharing screen looks good. Good. I think that's as large as I can make it, so this is what you have you have. Have OK atheists? What if we, for the sake of argument, affirm that God does not exist? Where did the universe come from? Modern scientists point toward a non eternal universe, so it must have began at some point in the past. #2. What evidence do you have for those beliefs? Go. You know what I love is the very first comment is me. Atheism is still a thing. So Titus, you are a graduate of CIA cross examine instructors Academy. As in I as am I I think. Think I've told you. Or maybe I don't know. I could. I knew.

I'm there the same year.

Really. Wait, I don't know. What year?

Where were you when you went to California?

Albuquerque.

Yeah, I was.

Are you serious?

I was. There. Uh, huh. I was gone now three times, but.

Yeah. Oh, wow, that's wild. That's. So yeah. Well, so I'm gonna run down some of these comments and. Just gonna have. You respond to a couple of them. This is 11 answer to your question. One time, as part of space-time emerged simultaneously with space as a function of The Big Bang. So the concept of time as we know it had no temporal beginning, only a causal beginning. It's not. It's if that's not a satisfactory answer, I ask you where did God come from? If you insist that the universe have a beginning, you must assert that God had a beginning type.

Go.

All right. So Christians believe in a God that is eternal and anything that begins to exist must have a cause. But our God never began to exist. He does not have a cause and that's basically what we call the Kalam cosmological argument, made popular by Doctor William Lane Craig. He took that, I think from some. Islamic.

Yeah, it. A Muslim philosophers, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Yeah. Umm, I don't know if Dean Chirac has ever. Heard that? Yeah.

Umm.

Now I don't see him being. But he says CMB and the laws of physics provide much evidence in support of this. In fact, the real question is where is your evidence of God? That's not very coherent, but go.

What CNB means either, but to me. The easiest evidence for God is the person of Jesus, because we know historically that he existed. So at that point, like I love to talk about evidence for the resurrection, you know, we know that Jesus was a real person.

Hey.

Gary Habermas for minimal or not for minimal facts, but his list of minimal facts is super helpful. And you know, just talking about the things that both secular. Secular scholars and Christian scholars agree on certain facts about the. So for me, I'm like if you can prove that Jesus existed and prove that the resurrection, or at least give good evidence that the resurrection occurred, then for me, that's evidence for God. But also like I love the fine tuning argument. The fact that things in the universe are so ordered, and I was even reading Jonathan Mcclatchy, he has so many articles on on all the science stuff because he's a complete nerd. And I mean that in the best sense. Genius. But he was talking about irreducible.

Mm.

So we start to look at, you know, even the human body or the ear or something like. And you you need this part to make this thing function, but you can't have this function in unless these other 20 things. It's. So I'm like irreducible complexity. Fine tuning those types of things I think are good evidence for God's existence.

It was the irreducible complexity argument that made me or won me over regarding evolution. I'm. I'm not saying I was an evolutionist or regarding macro evolutionist. I'm just saying that the jury was out because, you know, all of the different argumentation regarding it. And no matter what side you're on, there are going to be assumptions you make regarding it. But irreducible complexity and the lack of a link. You know, there's so. So much missing evidence regarding the claim to macro evolution. It's theory. Theoretical by nature, but irreducible complexity was what won the day. Yeah, at no point can my human heart be kind of like transforming into a human heart and still function. It's just. It's not gonna work. Alright, let's let's do one more.

OK.

The universe came from The Big Bang, and since nothing existed before, The Big Bang always was. My. Just as your God always.

Right.

And you have no trouble explaining where God came from. We can literally see the universe still exploding. In parentheses, expanding The Big Bang isn't something that happened. Something that is always happening and is still happening. Yes, our universe is still exploding per say. It has been exploding since the beginning of time. Since the beginning of time.

Unreal.

The Exposit just gets less violent. Titus, what you got for?

OK.

So I'm definitely not the expert on this. I don't even think I had read that comment yet, but I think there's some philosophical fallacies here, and probably even scientific. But from my understanding, the expansion of the universe is actually evidence for a creator because. Shows that the universe is an eternal because if it was to collapse back on itself, it will start back at a single point.

Mm.

So for him to make this claim that the universe just always was, well, I mean, that's a claim. But you haven't given any evidence for that. Whereas the Bible is our standard for what we know about God, that God has revealed about himself. So if we know that the universe is not eternal to me, I think it's more logical to assume that the Bible was right in how it describes a creator. So.

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, you even said in your opening question. Modern sciences point towards a non eternal universe and I think the biggest thing was the discovery of redshift and the redshift is how we know that the universe is expanding and if something is expanding like you said. You pressure rewind. There's a point of singularity. There's a start point. And what's so interesting in this question is he used the phrase since the beginning of time. Yeah, interesting.

Wait, wait, bro, I thought she said. Was no beginning of time.

With the Walker. OK, self defeating contradiction.

Yeah, man, that's Frank Turtz favorite stuff. Self defeating all. All right, that's enough fun.

That was.

It's enough. It's time to make some people mad now, now, something that I wish or. And you know something? I think that will be common in in newer generations of.

Goodnight.

Black American Christians, I'm gonna highlight that because of the culture that we've kind of all grown up in. Is that something like apologetics won't be foreign or won't seem outside of our culture? Be a part of Christian culture, which we are a part of Christian culture. And it'll be a part of our discipleship in the way that we raise our children and the way that we talk to each other and defend our faith. But Speaking of black culture, there's a big cloud around it, and that's just the skin itself. And there are certain allegiances commitments that were supposed to make. And if you aren't, if you aren't black enough to have gone to an HBCU. For your college. Then you at least had to have done another rite of passage which is showing a black fraternity or sorority. Now 1 did you attend university, Titus? I did. Where did you go?

Well, I will say that it was a PWI in the South. You're not black.

As as our friend Joe Biden would great gratefully tell you. Yeah, so now here's the thing. That's that's a very interesting. I wonder what Black Greek fraternities and sororities are like there versus where I went. In Baltimore City, HBCU Darren you were out in Cornsville. In Ohio. That's. So tell so quickly. What was the experience like? Quote UN quote Greek life where you were type.

Oh, they definitely were typically well liked on campus, popular through parties. It was just kind of like black excellence, you. So if you were black on my campus, a lot of us wanted to be a part of that because it looked like it was a lot of fun and it was really. And those are typically, you know, the smarter ones and the ones who just kind of I know nobody says this anymore, but like they got the flag or whatever, you know what I'm saying so. It was definitely something that was was something that a lot of people wanted to do, if you're. On a white campus.

What was it like on your campus there?

All seven of them. Yeah, I would. I would say it's pretty similar. I don't know what kind of corny you. You know, anywhere I went to over.

But shows us a HBCU as well.

Yeah. In Ohio, we're before university.

'S.

The thing is, when I got there a lot of them were suspended. Where did you get crickets? Ridiculous. A lot of them were suspended and for hazing.

For hazing.

And I got. Kind of get it on that campus, seems like. Were all trying too hard. Because here they are in Ohio, nobody respects them. Nobody respects their school, but they had to. Some kind of, you know, assert some kind of.

Mm.

In a lot of. And that's what they were doing. Was it was odd. About. Maybe want to join any of the organizations?

So Titus, did you want to be a part of one? Which one? Why aren't you?

I did so I wanted to be a part of Alpha Kappa. So the ask they were, you know, typically the just best dress just well put together, really smart. The girls that you know kind of the IT girls. So I wanted to do. I went to an interest meeting and my experience going to interest me and then and getting interviewed was just extremely traumatic. Was terrible because I just wasn't prepared. I found out later. Well, OK. Maybe not. Later I found out as I was going through the process of learning about how to join the organization. Like all the red tape and how much research? How you get to know people? Because really, it's kind of about who you know, if you don't like have the resume to just make them want you. So I just made a lot of. I didn't market myself well, so they were like girl. Not you. You will never be a member of this sorority, but. Yeah, that was my experience trying to be a part of AKA.

Wow.

Time out. So. So there's an elitism. Mm hmm to. Interesting I didn't.

Special work.

I didn't get to that part where I'm like doing. I went to an interest meeting and I I just thought it was very juvenile. It was very, you know, it just was unattractive to me. I had also just come to Christ. There. Probably some things in me that died. And in that meeting, it's like, hey, this is stupid. I left now. There are probably people listening. There are definitely people listening to this podcast and they're thinking about fraternities and sororities and. Well, what's the big deal for turning subordinates as a college thing? You go to college, you join fraternities for you leave college. Boom. It's gone. Done. Why is that not the case for black fraternities and sororities?

For me, I would say the religious undertones are #1, especially if you're a Christian. There's a lot of ritualistic things you have to do in secret. You have to take that I think go against. What the Bible tells us is OK to do as Christians and then also just practically speaking, a lot of these organizations participate in hazing. Hazing can start off innocent and then you know, sometimes it can be. There's a lot of people who go through processes and they don't make it out. It's not everybody, but it happens enough where you know it is something to be concerned about. So I would say religiously. Just for your own personal safety, there's a lot of things that can go wrong if you try to pledge an organization like that while you're in college, yeah.

Now, what sets black fraternities and sororities apart from typical just college life journey of fraternity and sorority?

Well, there's just so many different types of organizations. So black fraternities and sororities. Fact Check me on this if anybody's. I think there are social organizations or maybe both social and civil, whereas like I was in a business fraternity when I was in college. Basically they would help you with your. They would help you learn how to conduct yourself in a job interview. You they would teach you how to do. So those were things that you know were typical, and it wasn't that bad, but there. Like. A slight hazing pledging process there where these black organizations and there's white organizations that are more social and stuff too, you know, they do like the underground hazing and then. Of course they'll do. Service. So you might see them picking up trash on a Saturday morning or, you know, doing things with local high schools or middle schools and all these kind of things. I would say it's different because it's more about the social aspect. But they kind of market it like it's really about. Black excellence, or helping the black community, but really, from the outside looking in, it looks more like it's about, you know, just kind of being being that person on campus. Me looking from the outside in, I hope that answers the question.

Yeah, I mean, I so let me address what you just said from somebody looks from the outside in. Definitely what I. I think there that's what you got. You just wasn't attractive to you because it was like you said, seven of them total. But I mean, when I was in high school, I mean, we grew up in a musical family.

They were. They were wet. It was so wet.

I have a very eclectic musical playlist of George Clinton, was one of those Parliament. So one of those things I used to listen to when I was younger, I remember going to a parade and watching these guys in purple shirts and gold boots do this routine. Parade to Parliament Funkadelic, I said. I want to be them. That was it.

Mm.

Was all it took.

Such a lame.

It's quite it's quite, quite lame. But you know something that rubbed me the wrong. Kind of like what you brought up. Titus is maybe what people don't know. Who are listening to this and not familiar with the kind of the the black experience regarding fraternity sororities, is that there are stereotypes attached to these groups to these groups. So so from the outside looking in, you've got AKA you said they're the put together ones, right, they. They're the IT girls. What have? Heard or even personally believed about others.

So the Deltas are also well put. Well, anyway, I would say all the sororities and fraternities, they typically want to look good. Collectively, they want to look good, but the aka's are kind of more like the prissy type, and the deltas were like the pretty girls, but like the tough girls. The, you know, don't mess with us. Type of girls. Zetas and SG rose. OK, so I read this book called our kind of people, and they kind of categorize some of these organizations.

Hmm.

They say that the old guard, there's only 5 of them. Them so that would be the omegas, the kappas and the alphas. And then the ASK and the deltas and everybody else. Kind of say those aren't really like legitimate because they're not the original.

Interesting.

So the. Yeah, the five old guard are typically from what I can tell as well. The ones on campus that are the most. So the omegas are like the tough ones, you know the.

Yeah.

The very I guess promiscuous based on some of the actions that they do during their coming out ceremonies.

Yes.

Very just lewd and crude and all that.

Yeah.

The Alphas I think have a reputation for being kind of the smart nerdy ones, but you know they have a really good stance Alpha's concept. And then the kappas are kind of like the pretty boys. So they do the shimmy or whatever. So yeah. They. Oh yeah, I never got back to Zetas and escalators. Don't want to say anything negative.

But.

They just typically Zeta's su rolls Phi Beta Sigma and. The Iodos aren't even nobody even really talks about them because they came like 20 or 30 years after everybody else. So yeah.

Right at Morgan, right.

Yeah. What's that, Morgan? That sounds. That sounds right out there, yeah.

At Morgan. So this is I remember I was in a African diaspora class. At college and. And I completely, I don't know. I lost track of, I thought our term paper was due at a certain point and it was due the next day. So the paper that I wrote was the irrelevance of black fraternities and sororities in our modern day. And my whole point was from the inception you had the Alphas. Why I called the alphas for those listening? And they started on the campus of Cornell in Cornell is obviously Ivy League. Ever heard of it? Obviously I, Ivy, League and White. And so you had, I want to say, I can't remember how many, but super minority less than 20. Black students and they form a fraternity. A fraternal order that makes sense from the justice on the surface. Like, hey, this can be potentially hostile territory. We need to band together to make sure we matriculate through this safety, also with excellence in that we hold each other accountable and have each others backs. Makes sense? But then came the black campus. The All black campus. Where majority of the ones you talked about were formed on Howard and it's like that just doesn't make any sense. Mean you've got the thing that you wanted was your own space. Now you've got your own space and you're forming. Further fragmented groups. On this campus. And I I hadn't heard about the five thing I know about the 9 divine 9. They call it and they look down on anyone else. That's not a part of the Divine 9.

Mm.

Which as far as I'm concerned, these fraternities and sororities are attached to your blackness. About being. This is the black experience and you never stop being black. When you graduate from college, you still do this stuff. But we all so simultaneously look down. On the other organizations that are cut, you know, seemingly doing the same things or whatever. So let me ask this before we get into. Spiritual side of it. Do you see any difference between older? I don't know if you had any contact with older generation members of the sororities or fraternities versus our generation and younger. Is there any difference?

You know that's.

A good question. From what I can tell, the older generation I would say just seems to have a little bit more class, a little bit more. Respect, whereas now some of these strolls and the dances and stuff that they do on these campuses and the things that they say is just so horrible. And that's just a level of. I don't know. Now this is just an observation, so maybe this is just what I'm. Maybe it's always been like that, but there just seems to be like a devolving of self respect from what I can tell and how they kind of act in in these organizations where I'm sure if the older crowd would be as OK with some of that stuff, I. The queues always been nasty from from my knowledge. Know if everybody was kind of like that. Now some of the girls, you know, the dancing and stuff, it just it's not very becoming.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess.

Remember when?

We were at on campus. It was like the. Alumni weekend. I guess it was a step show all that stuff and and it's hard to say. I mean, it was a lot of people there, so they weren't all from my school, some from like the surrounding. In the area. And I remember these alphas were outside like it felt like we were on the block like these. These alphas were outside. Had tended out black altimas with gold. They all got like they walked around with. Cups stomped.

Stop the yard.

Yeah, these older guys come up. And they have on. And by older, I mean they had to be in their 60s maybe. They. They had suits. They had their Alpha Phi Alpha pens and they one guy walked up to one of the officers said. Who are you supposed to be? And the guy was like, are we 8? And they go 06, you know, yelling, he said. No you not. Like you dressed like you had a party. You all you outside during the day on campus.

Where's your suit?

He had a like he had a very different level of respect for the fraternity than these other guys. It kind of felt like a gang, to be honest.

Yeah.

Those dudes were intimidating, like, I wouldn't want to be a part of that. Look like a gang. They had T-shirts, red cups blasting. That's when graduation. So they were playing graduation Kanye West and it's like, what are y'all supposed to be?

And some of them, I mean, I've done videos about this like they will threaten you like some of their paraphernalia or something like that.

Yeah.

To say that if you're not in it, that you should do that. As a Christian, I think it's wrong to. But I also think it's wrong to bash somebody's head in because they're wearing a shirt that they got out of goodwill, not knowing that you know what?

Right.

It just seems counterintuitive to the whole, you know, being for the betterment of black people.

Right. And you know, and that's the wiff I got when I was in college that there was this. Rhetoric that was going to be regurgitated regarding why you ought to be a part of this organizations for community service. It's for, like you said, black excellence. The the tradition of it and maintaining that excellence. And things like. And man, I can't think right now networking. All of those, all of that.

Network big one, yeah.

Meanwhile, all I saw was the ability to be noticed on campus. Yeah, that's what I saw.

Mm hmm.

Now.

Leism.

Yeah, yeah. The elitism of it and. My childhood friends are still my friends and none of us got spanked for it, so I was OK. Were still boys and we had strong bonds, so OK. Now. You mentioned. Now there are. Who probably don't know what the heck you're talking about with strolling because. I think that is something that is very unique to black fraternities and sororities. What is strolling?

So yeah, strolling is one of those things that I think is genius because it shows black culture and it looks good, but it's basically like they'll get in a line and they practice these dance moves or routines or whatever. And they'll specially at parties or step shows. They do these. Some of them have been doing the same strolls for decades. At this point, I know the AK as have a particular one. Like some of them have their song. Forget the aka. Then, of course, the cues. Have the. The what'd you say the psychedelic was?

Yeah, Parliament's hallowed atomic dog.

You know the alpha is a lot of times. They'll use that. Bring them out, bring them out. Song and the Kappas, Boo. See or. So yeah, they they do these little dances where everybody doing the same thing in a line and it looks cool, you know, at a party it's it's a cool thing to see at a party, but you got to be careful because if you break up that stro. You might not make a home alive 'cause they might. Especially if you do, they might get you. Take the stroll in very seriously. Know what I'm saying?

I mean, it's a lion dance. Apparently it's a sacred lion dance 'cause we. We could all do. Line dance as soon as we're finished this. Let's just do a line dance. As a matter of fact, whenever Darren and I were at a party or something like that, there's a certain dance we would do together and people would always approach us and ask us where part of some organization we got asked we were. One time we were on a cruise and I got asked if we were if we asking if we were Masons or something.

Yeah, what?

Because Mason's lineback let me tell you, this is for any person who's listening to this was black and who's. Mason, I just want to let you know. This is what the love of my heart because I don't think you should be a Mason. If you are a Christian, I'm assuming you're a Christian if you. To this podcast, you shouldn't be a Mason, but. If you are part of the organization and you identify as a Christian, one in Christ, one leave it. Two, you're not amazing. You're not in the know. You're on the surface. The club, you know, the club type Prince Hall thing, but.

Mm.

OK, let's get to this. So there is a video circling the Internet where people can see a lot of fraternities. Fraternities, sororities, strolling all at the same time, all at the same time.

Mm.

Just so happens to be in a sanctuary. During worship service, have you seen this?

I've seen that video, yeah.

Whose church was that?

Oh, I want to say it was William Murphy, the dreamer, of course.

That's right. Course it was.

It was William Burton.

Now what you got to walk it out for Jesus. Why do we have? Such a stumbling block created when we start talking about the Christian faith and black fraternities and sororities. Why do you think that creates such a stumbling block?

I think it's because of the implications on the structure of the organizations on the gospel, because we we've already talked about elitism. So this I'm better than you and other ring of people. And if you have this, if you're wearing these colors and you're more important to. Us then people who are not wearing those colors, that's antithetical to, you know, Jesus teachings of loving your neighbor, even loving your enemy as yourself.

Yeah.

So I think that's one major red flag we already talked about hazing. And these rituals and things that just totally go against our faith. But because of the connection to our black culture, I think some people. I don't know what it is, but there's like a disconnect and really being able to see like how this is not compatible with our faith and it's really hard to explain that to people when they're knee deep in those organizations because they love them so much.

Yeah, alright, devil devil's advocate. OK. What Titus, we do community service, we support the community.

We could literally say that about so many different cult. I mean, atheists participate in community service sometimes. First of all, as Christians, we know that we're saved by grace and not by any works that we've done. So just because you do good things, sometimes it does not mean that those works justify you. So to say, Oh well, because I do good works and that means the organization is good. Well, no it doesn't. Also, organization does really bad. I mean, some people are in the grave right now because they were doing something in the name of your organization. You can't talk about the good and also leave the bad out.

I'm sorry, I'm devil's advocate. That was a high point. Was all right.

That.

Was a high. Now you're talking about Christians and all this Christian stuff, but at least I have a brotherhood.

Well, I mean, the church is, is the body of Christ brothers and sisters. I don't know why you would feel the need to. Get brotherhood outside of the church. I mean, I don't have a problem with people being in other organizations because you don't have to do church all day long. Every. That's kind of crazy, but if you're looking for true brotherhood, there is no greater brotherhood that you can find other than was what you can already find in the church, and you shouldn't have to do secret rituals or do things that are going to be in conflic. Your faith for the sake of brotherhood.

I remember I. This is Brandon talking now.

****.

His head has been crushed. So. I I remember I was in a a study room in an engineering building and there was a Honor Society which also involves Greek letters. Was like Tai Beta π or something like that that we were invited to be a part of. I just renounced all types of things that involve me doing more than saying OK, yes, and shaking somebody's hand if it's more than that, then I'm alright and and I remember there was this girl, this woman who was younger than me sophomore, I think.

Mm.

And while I was studying, I had my headphones on and I was kinda just listening. And she was, like, surrounded by people who were. Also, fellow engineers, students who were trying to get her to be a part of this group. Like you were kind invited, you can join. Join the honest you know whatever. And she's like. But I'm a Christian now. And she wasn't adamant. I could see that she was working it out right. Was working on her own heart, mind. When she says. But I'm a Christian. She's like and then other people were like, hey, we're Christians too. We're Christians too. Got nothing to do with it. It's that big a deal, she. Well, if it's not a big deal, why do I have to go and do this thing that y'all can't tell me we're doing? Why is it? Why? That makes me think I shouldn't be doing it. And I think that's a good rule of thumb when it comes to. Back. What you said it's like there shouldn't be secret oaths and pledges and allegiances for the Christian. When I came to Christ, my pledges and my allegiances were used up.

That's it.

That's it. There is a moment when I shifted from kind of being apathetic to being anti. And that was when I was about to get married that my wife, she had pledged delta in college. She has since renounced. But since I was apathetic, she knew how I felt about. Like I could go on a rant about. I told you I wrote a paper in a day about its relevance. So.

Because it's.

When we were about to get married, she said. Hey, is it OK if my sisters sing at our wedding? Deltas like to do this thing in a wedding. Like. Yeah, that's fine. That's cool. The song. Let's let's talk something with the song is. And basically the song is elevating her identity as a delta. At our wedding and I said to her here's thing. They're going to sit down and applaud like everybody else. Because this day what they're going to watch is they're going to watch you die and me die and us become one. So whatever letters you used to wear as your identity, it's not there anymore. Isn't us, and that's what they're going to watch. But I realize that these organizations are present at two major times in your life. At your wedding and at your funeral. Those are identity markers. They're there to mark their territory as an identity marker. Have you ever seen either of those at a wedding or a funeral?

No, I I recently went to a funeral where there were Masonic rites done. I've heard about, like, omegas and kappas and things like that and deltas having funeral rights. And I've seen the videos of people doing these ceremonies and stuff at weddings, but I personally haven't seen that.

Yeah, well damn. You were at Uncle Wilbert. Sooner. Well, you had uncle.

Yeah, I was at his Rio. Know I wasn't. I was at his repass.

Oh oh. So yeah, our uncle who is alpha. And at his funeral, they make it. It feels like they take it over. I mean, you know, our family, and this is a big deal. Is not like a big deal to me because. He was a pillar in our family. A patriarch. He was our family patriarch. And so. To have a family patriarch who's also a believer. And to have the entire service kind of overshadowed with black and gold and Alpha Phi Alpha rhetoric. It's kind of a stain for me. It's kind of stained because. If you ask me more than an alpha, he was a father. He was a husband. He was a father to nephews of his. Yeah, I I I've mentioned this multiple times, but that funeral I've been to multiple funerals, but that funeral holds a vivid picture in my mind. You know when they give the family the last opportunity before they close the casket before the service starts. But all of the men. My the next generation above us got up. My father, his brothers, their cousins, they all got up. They don't do that at funerals. Their wives will do. And they'll go up and they'll all be. But they all got up crying. To see him one last time at least see the shell of him one last time and. I I felt very. Don't know. What's the word I'm looking for? Slighted to have them come up and kind of overtake that very. Special time for us as a family to lay our patriot to rest and it kind of makes it feel like it's saying hey. We're glad you guys.

Is ours.

Yeah, we're glad you guys came to our. Service for our brother here, the alpha. But these identity markers, I think they're what way more subtle, but way more serious than people realize.

Mm.

But you did an episode and we can get ready to close. But you did an episode with a young woman who I think was delta, wasn't she?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What were some things that she was highlighting? The basis of that episode was. She's a Christian and she's renouncing her identity as a delta. Am I right in saying that?

Yes. So her name is Melissa, and she was a delta for. I can't even remember how many years, but she pledged in Georgia and she just talked about how horrific her hazing experience was. And, you know, getting paddled and being talked to like a dog and then telling them to eat dog food. She ate dog food. Then they did all these rituals. Secret rituals, I guess, for the the actual induction in a church. And she was just like, that was weird, you know, to do all these secret things and say these things that she didn't really think about because at the time she wasn. Christian. But now that she's a, you know, a believer, she's like, man, I went back and I looked at my rituals, and I thought about what we did. And I'm just. I know that wasn't. So you know that story that went crazy on. I think it got over 1,000,000 views on Tiktok because I think people heard her saying she ate dog food.

Wow.

Were like, come again. What?

Yes.

I think the average person doesn't know. What underground hazing can look like it? It can be crazy.

Yeah. Let me tell you I remember. I'm looking forward to doing an episode with. That's my wife and we talk about this because there are a lot of kind of like in between stories that we can tell that are related to this. When we were dating. And I and I brought this back up at when she was renouncing, going through the process of renouncing her allegiance to Delta. When we were dating, I randomly asked this question. Kind of like just to see where his thinking was in principle, to see if we shared the same principles. I tried to come up with a very outlandish. Yeah, I'm very provocative. And the question was this. If you're ever in the house chilling with your line sisters and your friends. And then I come into your house and I say, hey, could you make me a sandwich? How would you respond? And I left it at that just to see where she was. Would you wrestle? Are you wrestling with your perception in front of these? Will they having a problem with you serving me in any way? Will they see that as less than for you to serve me? That a terrible thing. They buying in? To the cultural lie that women. Shouldn't serve the men they love and do have. They also brought into that lie that if you are a woman who serves the man he you love. Therefore, the man you love also doesn't serve you. This a feminist mentality. Just what are you drawing on from this? And I just wanted to know where her thinking.

This.

And it was a very honest conversation where it's like, yeah, knee jerk reaction would be to try to preserve my. My identity. My image in front of my friends that no, I'm not going to do that. But obviously in that what we have to think. Is what one who? You. Are you dating somebody who would ever treat you like some slave? Something like that and expect you to do it like some slave. Would you give me the benefit of the doubt? Even if my tone seemed like disrespect. You you trust. I'm obviously not somebody who. There's a lot to think about if you trust that. Obviously not somebody who disrespects. Would you be willing to do it? No matter what they thought about you, does our relationship transcend people's view about our relationship or not? And that was important to me because. Obviously what we're doing in getting married is we're agreeing to do those things for one another. It doesn't matter what people's thoughts are. And when she was renouncing. I found out there was like a A. There were things that she had kept from me not. It's just that when before we were married, she's a part of Delta. She kept certain things hidden and never thought about it again. When we were married because she wasn't actively walking in her Deltona and her membership. But when I found that out, I'm. I'm just saying that. One, when it comes down to hazing. You were willing to go through way more than making a sandwich in order to wear those letters. #2, naturally being a part of this organization, meant you had to keep things from me. That means that there's a natural wedge between us in our marriage. I don't believe a marriage should have secrets between spouses. That's just not the. We are not a phone locked marriage. Knows what's on my. I know what's on her phone and. Not like checking each. It's just that we trust each other 'cause. We love each other. We are each other, as the scripture says. And So what I'm saying is, even from a passive standpoint. There were secrets in our marriage that naturally exist because you're part of this organization. So that means that our our our marriage can't possibly be a primary relationship. Inherently, if, if there are wedges that are drawn and you don't even have to actually actively form those wedges, it's just expected of you.

It's.

Hey, you're going to keep things from him regarding this sisterhood that we have is I will know. Me and her both agree that our marriage is the primary human relationship that we both have on this Earth above any other human relationship. We'll have on this Earth. And that's important for us to guard and I highlight that to say. That that can't be the case when you're a part of these. When your parties are and so if that can't be the case for us humans, then it definitely can't be the case for somebody who has pledged their life to Christ. If you are a part of. Organizations. Isn't that interesting? This is not to her. I'm just saying the stuff that it forms in you to say this is what you ought to be willing to do to become one of us. A narrative amongst black women and black men is that, hey, it marriage ain't marriage. Ain't really all that important. It's not that important really.

Yeah, yeah.

What were some other things Melissa highlighted besides the? That kind of either led to conviction or affirmed her in her convictions.

And she this is still related to hazing. But when she ended up doing it to other people, I think when she thought about that in hindsight, how she treated people, how she was slapped, I'm not sure if she slapped anybody, but. Umm, just these humiliating things that they would say and do to each other and then call each other sisters.

Yeah.

It was just. She. She was like I I I can't believe I did that. Was totally wrong. So I think that was kind of. A. At some point the light bulb went off like I can't treat people like this. Especially now knowing what she knows about you know how Christ expects us to treat fellow Co image bearers. Know what I mean?

Yeah. What I mean the origins of? This might have to be a completely different episode, but something that always evaded me is that OK?

Is the Greek part.

Yeah, it's like you got the black beauty. The beauty of blackness and then you. You only saw black campus with all these black people, because blackness is just so blacking. And then the essence of that blackness. Is identified through Greek letters. That about.

You know. I would have to go back and look at all the origins, but I know you already talked about how the alpha started at Cornell and they basically took what they saw from the white organizations. Know some of them would not admit that, but I watched it. I watched the Alphas documentary about theirs. They're like, yeah, we. Like we learned what we learned from them and also from Freemasons, because their first.

No incense.

Initiation ritual was in a Masonic Lodge, so a lot of it goes back to.

Oh.

I can't remember exactly why they incorporated specifically the the Greek stuff, but I know that alpha is kind of wanted to pattern their organization after the Sphinx and all this Egyptian stuff. So there's I think it's a little bit more African than maybe some of the other orgs, but ultimately a lot of it goes back to Freemasonry.

Yeah, interesting.

Mm.

So. And then not only that. But there are rights and rituals and ceremonies that exist with these things. And I think that when people listen to us talk about this, you know, amongst other things, like next week, we're going to do an episode on the movie Wicked that comes out. And this is the thing in my mind where I anticipate people saying. Y'all doing too much. I'm sure you get that. I'm sure you get that y'all y'all.

Yeah. That's all we get. So I have a lot of thoughts.

Oh, you saw it.

I saw it, yeah.

Oh, we might have to hop on another one.

I wanna go see. We gotta go see it though. See it?

I know I that's what I said. Just don't have time. Mean hello.

And it's a long film too, but yeah.

And that's just Part 1, right?

Yeah. Yeah, just Part 1.

Yeah, I don't know if you know Amy from eyes on the right podcast. Familiar with her at all.

I don't think so.

But that's what we're doing. An episode with 'cause she's actually worked alongside people who work in Hollywood. And have dealt with satanic ritual abuse and things like that.

OK.

So we're coming at it from that angle, but I'm, I'm sure the people, the response when they hear us talking about and just opening people's eyes to the reality of the world is like you doing too much. It's not that serious. And then we can flip that back on the head. Like, if it's not that serious. Within how serious is your professional? Because obviously we're talking to Christians who have made a profession and that, hey, there's there's a warning that you could see Christ upon his return and his responses.

Right.

And you are.

So.

That's the black and blurred version.

I'm sorry, who are you? And so that's what we're. We're learning Christians to say, hey, this is what it means to be a believer, that it is no longer you, but Christ who lives in you and that that ought to look a certain way. Not that we do a bunch of things in order to be in Christ. But it's that when we are in Christ, the fruit and the evidence of that shows itself, and that evidence in that fruit can't possibly be having other allegiances and pledges, just like I don't wear multiple rings.

Mm.

I'm not going to wear multiple rings. You're talking to. Some high school seniors who are professing Christians and they're black and they can't wait to go and have their college experience. The quintessential 1 is a different world, right? Got all. Know that's everybody wanted that experience. And they're going to college. And the first thing they want to do is join a fraternity and or sorority. They're like. Which one should I join go?

I will say I think what y'all need to do is try to find a good Bible based gospel preaching church and make that a priority and skip the Greek life stuff again. Hazing is dangerous and. You know, I just at this point I am so disappointed in how the culture of those organizations really impacts those who profess to be Christians. I think it puts you in a very compromising situation. Like whether you're talking about these these rituals and these oaths that you have to do that basically say, well, you're going to be a part of this for forever. And if you break this old, it'll follow you to final judgment. Why do you think? Why would you want to repeat something like that? As a Christian is going to follow you final judgment. Crazy. But even just like the commitment to doing all these things for the organization, the parties and. How they treat people who are not a part of it, I think as Christians we have to look at that and say, you know what? I don't think that's God's best for. That's not going to really give me the opportunity to be a light on campus, even though they say this is how I'm going to be alike, I'm going to join the organization so that I can have an influence on them.

Good morning.

That's not typically what you see. You typically see is. The other way around, you know.

Yeah.

Get caught up. And all this stuff, you know, the party ****** and stuff you don't want to think about that happening on college campuses, but it's happening.

Yeah, it is.

Just so many. You know the sexual side. You hear a lot of them talk about how how promiscuous they were because of the orgs, especially the men. I interviewed a friend of mine who used to be an. You know, talking about that kind of stuff and how bad they beat him. I showed the pictures or he he showed a picture of what he. Look like after his. I don't know if it was what they call it. You know, they go to set a couple times a week and they they beat him or whatever. So it was either set or when he actually got in the organization, but the bruises on his back awful. Just awful. Like you don't want to treat somebody like. So yeah, I would say skip the Greek organization, find a church, and then maybe try to find a service organization, something that's going to actually be for the betterment. Plus, the place processes, from what I've heard, so taxing having to stay up late, being exhausted, not having time for your schoolwork like you don't want to flunk out of college because you trying to become a part of a organization and the price tag, from what I hear. Crazy.

Yeah.

For me, sometimes that's enough for me.

Enough. That's enough.

The first tag, like when I told my mom like, you know, thousands of dollars. I'm like mom.

Yeah.

Really want to do this thing. Can you slide? I think at the time it might have been 1500 dollars or something like that. She was looking at me like, where are you getting this money from? The show ain't coming for me. But I don't. I don't know how I was gonna get that money. Maybe I was never gonna get it, and that was one reason I didn't make it in. But I personally I have a theory that some of this really is just like almost like a huge scam to just get people to give you money. Because now $1500 that's like a joke. Now from what I hear, some of these prices can go up four or $5000.

Oh my.

So you're convincing these college students that they are somehow better than everybody else, even though they would never actually say that. Admit it, but they do admit it when they call non Greeks gdis or GD individuals. That's you know. Y'all know what GD mean so.

Oh, the really.

Yeah, GD. It's a it's a.

That's funny.

You know it's it's a dig.

That's like the circumcised and the uncircumcised, that.

So.

Talks about.

Right. What in the world?

Day.

Did you say you, you know, and it even kind of reads like that, like in the alpha ritual, it talks about they read Ephesians 4 Jews versus Gentiles. The Alphas become the. The the main person of Ephesians 4, they totally RIP it out of context. They take the scriptures about Jesus out, but they make the brotherhood about alpha.

Are you kidding me?

Who, if they are, you know what I'm saying?

Wow. Man, that's satanic.

It's it's dark.

Yeah.

But I think what I was getting at is I I truly believe they're like, hey, let's get some money if these kids want to pay us $4000 to be able to wear pink and green, who? We to stop. That's those are my thoughts.

All right guys, you heard. Here, if you have a son or daughter and you aren't getting to them regarding their desire to join an organization and they are believer in Christ. Send the Titus. She's going to record that exact. We're going to keep that exact rent as. Receipt and we're just. To play it as a matter of fact for. A small fee of $5000.

It's.

For you and you can send it to your nephews and your nieces and your daughters and your sons to make sure. They're walking in the narrow. Titus, what are some things you're working on for people to look out for?

Oh, you know, that's a good question. My desire with it being the Christmas season, I would like to do a reaction video to. Historian Bill Federer because he's done some amazing research into the origins of Christmas.

Yes.

You probably heard of him because you're a Frank Turek fan, right? Or cross examine fan and you know.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

During the holiday season and I used to be one of these Christmases, Pagan people, because I just believed what? Some well meaning Pastor taught me that the holiday was Pagan.

Yeah.

And so I think that it would be nice to let more people who probably will never watch a Bill Federer video. Look at his material and you know, talk about the actual Christian origins of Christmas. So I would like to do that before the end of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty cool that that would. A great idea. That would be a great. Where can people find you? If you do that? Can they find that video?

Sure. Yes. On my YouTube channel is called Miss Titus Jones. Titus is T. YTUS, formerly known as Miss Titus 2. So yeah, I have a YouTube channel. On Instagram and TikTok? Yep.

OK. Well, we appreciate you hanging with us today. I'm gonna go ahead and forward all of our emails to your. So make sure people have. They can take a look gripes up with you. Everything that I said is just parroting tight as thought y'all. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Guys, we. We glad you did this inaugural episode with us. Imagine we're going to be doing some more. Going to be doing some more.

Yeah, absolutely.

To see wicked. We need to see wicked. Because, like we were talking about, I think instead of people's refrain towards us saying that we're being, we're doing too much.

Mm.

I don't think people who identify as Christian take it serious enough.

Do you hear me?

What it means? To call Christ Lord. And that has the greatest of repercussions. The greatest of repercussions. So yeah, we'll. Hopefully we'll be able to take a look at that and maybe we'll do something in the future, but. In the meantime, here's my encouragement to people based on what we were just talking about earlier. I think that there's good news in that we're telling you to refrain from pledging allegiance to groups that say that, hey, we'll break you down enough to where you don't have the will to leave us. Or maybe that's when you become a true brother or true sister when. You down to nothingness. In Christ, you become a part of his body because of his being broken down. That's. The difference? He was broken down so that we would be made whole. There's no condemnation for any of us. You can't say anything about us that tears our identity apart because we're found in. That's the payoff, and that's far greater than any human being putting their hands on you so that you can wear a jacket until you die. And the jacket will wither away with your body, but in Christ we live forever. So that's the payoff. Turn to. Trust Christ. If you've placed allegiance in him, do it in him in him alone. Thank you guys for listening to this episode of Black and Blue. Are guaranteed to hear one of two things, our humble opinion.

Or the facts.

Holler at us.